Think I just borked the Garage (Update: Fixed)

"sony1492" (sony1492) 10/10/2020 at 14:22 • Filed to: fuck

2

45

Update: Installed a new gfci outlet to no avail. E nded up calling an electrician and after an hour of screwing around realized that there’s a second relay panel on the other end of the house. Turns out the garage is 20amps and the relay had tripped, the other relay panel inside labeled 15amp G.D. is not G arage Door. Not sure what itll cost yet but probably too much

Plasma cutter works well though. Was running too many amps to get through some thick steel and the power shut down. The house relay box shows nothing tripped but I think the internal fuse for one of the sockets melted down. Normally when this happens you press the reset button and it resets, not this time.

This socket and fuse reset button seems to supply the garage, in the past when the circuit blows its reset here rather then the breaker panel

Guess its time to get ahold of an electrician?

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 18:44

2

Replace the wall outlet with a new non-GFI wall outlet. Pray it doesn’t melt.

lone_liberal > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 18:45

0

You could try just getting a replacement GFCI outlet but you might end up needing a 30A circuit (or a 220 subpanel) anyway. 

MM54 > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 18:50

3

If it’s fed through that GFI and won’t reset (and the breaker isn’t tripped) yeah, you probably fried the GFI. Should be about 15 minutes to change out and $30 for a new one.

subexpression > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 18:53

2

If it’s not near water  and you’re not exceeding the circuit’s capacity I’d ditch the GFCI outlet and put in a regular one. Some GFCI outlets are just junk. Replacing your own outlet (GFCI or otherwise) is pretty easy and doesn’t cost much, but it does require attention to detail.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 18:53

0

So I guess your whole garage (even the overhead lights?) runs through this GFI. That’s less than ideal.

What size breaker is it on? There’s a very likely chance someone installed a 15a outlet on a 20a circuit. You could get a replacement 20a GFI and give it a go (so long as you’re sure the wire running to and from that outlet is 12ga).

DO NOT replace with just a regular outlet unless it’s temporary to test the above. Most municipalities require all outlets in garages to be GFI’d.

If this was my house and using welding or cutting equipment was something I’d plan on doing all the time, I’d run a dedicated 30 or 50a circuit to the garage.

If you don’t, and it’s just from time to time...well...take your chances. But don’t do it on a 15amp / 14ga circuit. 

shop-teacher > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 18:58

1

Time for a new GFCI outlet. They don't last forever. Replacing it is super easy. No need for an electrician.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > subexpression 10/08/2020 at 18:59

1

As I mentioned above, many municipalities require all garage outlets to be GFI. 

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > subexpression 10/08/2020 at 19:01

1

I know a lot of municipalities require them for rooms with concrete floors

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 10/08/2020 at 19:08

0

I just rewired a garage for a friend. I put a GFCI at the first box where the power came from the house and then tapped everything else off that, except a freezer outlet.

At some point it occurred to me that I should have put the lights separately but that would have been a lot more work.

How hackishly did I do?  I also put a grounding rod in as there was no earth wire to the house.

RangerSmith > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 10/08/2020 at 19:09

1

The National Electric Code (NEC) requires it for garages. It’s true that the breaker did not trip, then most likely the pictured GFCI failed.

I’m sure you know to turn the breaker off before replacing it.

sony1492 > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 10/08/2020 at 19:13

0

I do use it constantly and the breaker panel is labeled 15amps, so sounds like i need to run my heavy equipment off of the outside outlet thats one of those heavy duty 4 prongs

sony1492 > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/08/2020 at 19:14

2

Gonna stick with the original socket type, but run my equipment from a different source thats setup for more amps. Getting the garage door/lights going is numero under right now

sony1492 > lone_liberal 10/08/2020 at 19:15

0

That sounds like actual in depth wiring

sony1492 > MM54 10/08/2020 at 19:15

0

Good to know, im guessing I should kill power to the garage on the breaker panel before replacing the outlet?

lone_liberal > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 19:20

0

Yeah, the 30A or 220v panel would require an electrician (though you could conceivably do it yourself but you’d need permits) that’s why I would try just replacing the outlet first and then go from there.

shop-teacher > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 19:23

0

That would be wise. Don't do the dummy move of just putting in a higher rates breaker and outlet. If it's a 15 amp circuit, then the wire is sized for that much load.

shop-teacher > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 19:24

3

Yes. Kill the power. Then replacing it is literally 6 screws, including pulling the trim plate. Maybe 8, if power is fed down the line from that outlet, which it ma y be.

Roadkilled > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 19:25

1

There are two options. You can replace it with a GFCI, or you can get a GFCI breaker for the whole circuit and put in a regular outlet. Either way, all of the general use outlets in a garage are required to have GFCI protection in most jurisdictions in North America. If you replace the outlet, pay close attention to the wiring. This GFCI might protect the other outlets on the circuit. The replacement will need to do the same.

There are exceptions for GFCIs in garages, but they are limited in scope and not accepted in many jurisdictions . For example, if you have a refrigerator or deep-freeze in your garage, you can install a single-outlet circuit without a GFCI. The code panel recognized that people don’t want a freezer in the garage shutting off if a GFCI trips unintentionally. As long as it’s a single-outlet dedicated circuit, the code panel figured that you couldn’t plug in anything else and it would only power the freezer.

I highly recommend remaining code compliant. GFCIs are used for a reason. Replacing faulty GFCIs is a hassle. Getting accidentally electrocuted is worse. All it takes is a frayed power cord running through a pool of water on the floor.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 19:39

1

I’d replace the outlet with one of the same. Make sure the one you buy is rated to 20 amps, not 15 amps. If your plasma cutter plugs into a household outlet, then it’s okay to run it on a 20A circuit.

Those GFI outlets go bad on their own, given a bit of time. I’ve replaced a number of them in my home over the years.

The suggestion to replace with a non-GFI outlet, I would advise against.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher 10/08/2020 at 19:39

1

Cutting off the power is for wimps.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 19:40

0

You need a 20A circuit.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 10/08/2020 at 19:41

1

I love it when you talk dirty.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > subexpression 10/08/2020 at 19:42

1

This is not advisable.

sony1492 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/08/2020 at 19:52

0

Sticking with the same outlet type and 15amp based on what the breaker inside says.

The plasma cutter has a normal plug, but I think it really shouldn’t considering it dials up way past 20a, (after blowing the fuse the extension cord was noticably warm) D efinitely going to figure out a higher output power source with a high rated extension cord and power strip, itll be expensive but cheaper then a fire

The Snowman > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 20:12

0

Lol plasma on a GFI is never really going to end well, is there water nearby? If there is no reason for GFI use a regular outlet.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > MiniGTI - now with XJ6 10/08/2020 at 20:16

0

That’s fine, especially now that we’re in the age of LEDs. The reason to wire lights separate from outlets it more about *having* light should one or the other need to be shut off. 

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/08/2020 at 20:18

1

There’s a couple of outlets in my house that, because I’m stupid, I didn’t realize were on a “not logical” circuit and didn’t think to test. So I rewired them hot and have lived to tell the tale!

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 20:24

0

Okay. So if the breaker is a 15a, absolutely do not installed a greater than 15a rated outlet. The point is for the outlet to fail before the circuit, lest the wire in the wall so bad things.

Re-running 10ga wire to a 30a breaker won’t be that expensive so long as the panel isn’t some stupid distance away from your garage. In my case, my panel is like 5 00 wire-feet away, soooooo I just have learned to be careful.

Anyway, for the time being: replace the busted outlet with a new 15a GFI for $16, find the closest 20a outlet and use that for your plasma cutter.  Your exterior ones, at the very least, should be. 

sony1492 > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 10/08/2020 at 20:34

0

Exterior are 50amp 250v, the fuse panel is 2ft away from the garage door but I’m not looking to renovate the house. Might be renting an actual undustrial garage space in the future

MM54 > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 20:36

0

Definitely.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 20:40

1

That’s an interesting setup. I’d advise for the short term, just replace the GFI outlet yourself, it’s easy...and in the future, get a quote from an electrician to rewire the garage. Even if you’re going to want to rent a space, there’s going to be some day you may want to plug in a freezer, power washer, or even electric car. I bet you can get *one* dedicated 20 or 30a outlet for about $400 or less , redo the whole garage in 30a for about $1200.

sony1492 > MM54 10/08/2020 at 20:44

0

I guess it was more a question of kill the whole panel or just the garage breaker

MM54 > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 20:48

0

Just the breaker feeding that outlet (and subsequently the garage)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > sony1492 10/08/2020 at 21:16

2

You want to make sure if you're putting that plasma cutter on an extension cord, that that power cord is a 12 gauge power cord. And as short as you can get away with. Like 25 ft or less and 12 gauge. Regardless of the ampacity of the circuit.

Michael > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 10/08/2020 at 21:27

0

Wait couldn’t you siz e everything at a higher amp than the breaker? Breaker still trips first. You just don’t want higher breaker than wire/outlet

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > RangerSmith 10/08/2020 at 21:51

0

Oh yeah. Not OP, but if the breaker is on, he 100% cooked that GFCI. Especially if it’s just a 15A one and he’s running a plasma cutter. And yes, you technically could replace it with the breaker on, but that’s a little more dangerous than you’d perhaps want it to be when it’s so easy to kill that circuit. 

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Michael 10/08/2020 at 22:13

0

NEC allows for the use of 15a receptacles on a 20a circuit so long as there’s multiple receptacles on the same run. Theory is that it’s unlikely for one receptacle (even a 15a one) to exceed 20a and burn out. That being said, you can’t have *one* single 15a receptacle on a 20a circuit (and remember that most receptacles are actually two, top and bottom, not one).

On 30a or above, yes you need a receptacle that matches the breaker. 

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 10/08/2020 at 22:22

0

I worried the ground stake might make it more prone to false tripping but I guess that’s silly. He’s nearly sold the house so I guess I’ll never know ha.

He just  wanted an outlet added and the rest of the garage wiring was so awful I said I wouldn’t do less than all of it. I was pretty proud of the job in the end.

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/08/2020 at 22:54

0

I can’t say I’ve never done it ... I certainly wouldn’t recommend it for somebody’s first outlet.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > shop-teacher 10/08/2020 at 23:07

1

I've done it a few times and definitely not my first socket.

SmugAardvark > sony1492 10/09/2020 at 02:45

0

If you know it’s on the garage breaker, just just killing the power there should be fine. If it’s wired like my house (that is, poorly labeled with half the addition wired to one room and half to another ), sometimes it’s just safer to cut it all for a quick job.

Michael > sony1492 10/10/2020 at 15:40

2

G.d. garbage disposal

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > Michael 10/10/2020 at 16:32

0

God damn, you may be right.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > sony1492 10/10/2020 at 17:29

0

So wait. You called an electrician, they figured out there’s another circuit breaker panel, they flipped said circuit breaker, and they’re charging you more than like $60 for the service call?

Good that the garage is 20a. It’s still concerning that your plasma cutter tripped the circuit, though.

Fun / weird moment about my house: for some reason, many of the breakers are “GFI’d” through separate GFI plugs at the panel. In other words, wires leave the panel, go through a GFI plug, and then go wherever throughout the house. It’s dumb and weird and idk why they’d ever do that.

I was replacing a ceiling light yesterday. Kept the breaker on cause the switch was turned off, so it didn’t matter since  the wires to the light would be cold. Tested them with a volt meter - yep, dead. However, somehow, the slight pulling / pressure on the wires was enough to trip the GFI at the panel for that circuit (not the breaker, just the GFI). If I think about it too much I’m gonna get worried, so I’m just not going to think about it again.

sony1492 > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 10/10/2020 at 17:52

0

Electrician took my info and I’ll get a bill in the mail at some point, asked about cost and didn’t get an answer. Sense it was an hour and he spent some time under the house tracing wires im expecting more then $100.

Is that an issue with poor grounding at your place?